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Looking into the lighting options

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jim1590

Looking into the lighting options
« on: January 05, 2017, 09:29:44 am »
I got the Echo Dot (2nd gen) last week and I love the thing. More importantly, my wife does as well. We are already planning on getting 2 more in the near future.

I want to take small steps with the lighting as to not break the bank. That and just a year ago, I replaced all of our bulbs with Cree LEDs at $5 each. So I like the bulbs I have and have no real desire to replace them, but I may have to in order to get what we are looking for.

I want an option that is dimmable, maybe do color change in the future and works with voice control via Alexa (obviously).

I put in 1 TP-Link smart plug that I use to control the on/off of our main lighting in our living room. Obviously I cannot do any dimming with this. I am torn as to which way to go next. I like the $70 Philips Hue standard hub with 2 bulbs. Can that standard hub control color bulbs if I buy a few down the road? Additional bulbs being $15 is nice as well. The Smartthings hub is an option as well but I do not see us adding much in the way of smart items beyond maybe a door lock. That would be down the road, and I bet designs would include optimization for Alexa through a skill, so a Smartthings hub may not be needed if the Echo becomes more of a hub.

An alternative to the lighting hub would be the wi-fi bulbs like the $20 TP-Link ones. I can dim, but no color change. Although I could get the color change down the road as a plug and play option. A smart switch is doable (and will come into play for something like a kitchen sink light) but I do not think the switch is the best option for the rest of the lights.

So, just starting out, having LED bulbs now, want more voice control but not wanting to break the bank. What does everyone else do?

jim1590

Re: Looking into the lighting options
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2017, 09:49:39 am »
Follow up:

Can I buy a used Gen 1 Philips Hue Hub and control the Gen 2 and Gen 3 bulbs with it? I do not have iOS so I do not need the Homelinks (think that is it) support.

Axe Man

Re: Looking into the lighting options
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2017, 09:53:48 am »
I have the Hue system and it works great. I also have a Cree brand bulb that easily connected to it. I also have the Wink Bridge and use a wired dimmer (Lutron Caseta) to some track lighting in my bar that works well.

jim1590

Re: Looking into the lighting options
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2017, 10:09:47 am »
Thanks. I will probably go with the Cree bulbs until I see a need to get the color aspects.

Incidently, I found a 1st gen hub on ebay for 10 (15 shipped). I called Philips and confirmed that the newest 800 lumen color changing bulbs will work with the 1st gen. So I got my hub coming.

So for the price of the gen 2 hub and 2 starter bulbs (70) I can get the gen 1 hub and 4 basic gen 2 philips or 4 cree bulbs. Not bad since the starter kit is out of stock everywhere.

DParker

Re: Looking into the lighting options
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2017, 11:48:23 am »
I got the Echo Dot (2nd gen) last week and I love the thing. More importantly, my wife does as well. We are already planning on getting 2 more in the near future.

I want to take small steps with the lighting as to not break the bank. That and just a year ago, I replaced all of our bulbs with Cree LEDs at $5 each. So I like the bulbs I have and have no real desire to replace them, but I may have to in order to get what we are looking for.

I want an option that is dimmable, maybe do color change in the future and works with voice control via Alexa (obviously).

I put in 1 TP-Link smart plug that I use to control the on/off of our main lighting in our living room. Obviously I cannot do any dimming with this. I am torn as to which way to go next. I like the $70 Philips Hue standard hub with 2 bulbs. Can that standard hub control color bulbs if I buy a few down the road?

Yes, the current hub (though Phillips' uses the term "bridge" for their product) will work all types of Hue bulbs (as well as the one motion sensor they sell).

Additional bulbs being $15 is nice as well.

I assume you already know this, but just to be safe...the $15 price only applies to the white A19 bulbs.  The multi-color bulbs are significantly more expensive.

The Smartthings hub is an option as well but I do not see us adding much in the way of smart items beyond maybe a door lock. That would be down the road, and I bet designs would include optimization for Alexa through a skill, so a Smartthings hub may not be needed if the Echo becomes more of a hub.

The Echo is not a hub at all, nor is it likely to ever become one.  In terms of its place in the home automation ecosystem, the Echo/Dot/Tap is nothing more than a voice interface to the Alexa service running on Amazon's servers.  The Alexa service converts your voice commands into vendor-specific requests (based on which device(s) you're trying to control) that it then forwards on to the appropriate vendors' cloud-based services, which in turn convert that into a command that is sent either directly to your smart device(s) (if WiFi based) or to a hub in your home that then converts that request into a Zigbee, Z-Wave or other protocol command that it sends to the target device.  The response then travels back through the same path, going through multiple conversions along the way, until your Echo/Dot/Tap is instructed to (hopefully) tell you, "OK".

The short version is that the Echo/Dot/Tap don't actually control anything, nor does the Alexa service.  They just combine to act as a voice-based interface to the vendor-specific services that actually control your devices.

An alternative to the lighting hub would be the wi-fi bulbs like the $20 TP-Link ones. I can dim, but no color change.

And that's OK for just a few bulbs.  But a hub-based solution eventually becomes more cost-effective (the exact break-even point varies based on several factors), and is yields far more functionality and flexibility.

Although I could get the color change down the road as a plug and play option. A smart switch is doable (and will come into play for something like a kitchen sink light) but I do not think the switch is the best option for the rest of the lights.

If you have lights that are already controlled by a wall switch you might find that, if your current wiring allows for it (you need to have a neutral wire for almost all smart wall switches to work), a smart switch is the way to go, for a couple of reasons:  1) You won't need to worry about people turning the conventional wall switch off and cutting power to smart bulbs.  2) If you have a non-dimming wall switch that controls at least 3 bulbs then you're already just about breaking even on initial hardware cost using a smart switch to control "dumb" bulbs vs using smart bulbs, and will generally be well past that point with 4 bulbs.  For instance, I have a ceiling fan with a 4-bulb lighting kit.  I use a GE Link fan control wall switch for the fan itself, and a GE Link dimming light switch for the lighting kit.  The latter cost ~$40 at the time, and adding 4 standard LED bulbs @ $3 each (bought in multi-bulb packs) put the total cost at ~$52.  Using dimmable smart bulbs...which were going for at least $15 at the time...would have cost $60, and still left me with a situation in which I had to make sure nobody every turned off the conventional wall switch.  So the smart switch was the...well...smart way to go.

jim1590

Re: Looking into the lighting options
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2017, 02:12:56 pm »
Yes, the current hub (though Phillips' uses the term "bridge" for their product) will work all types of Hue bulbs (as well as the one motion sensor they sell).

I found a Gen1 Bridge on ebay pretty cheap. I confirmed through Philips that it will control the latest Gen 2/3 bulbs with multi-color. If I am happy with how it all works, I can get a newer bridge and copy the settings over.

I assume you already know this, but just to be safe...the $15 price only applies to the white A19 bulbs.  The multi-color bulbs are significantly more expensive.

Yes, I only have white dimmable Cree LEDs currently so I will not be losing anything. However, I have the ability in the future to get a few multicolor for accent lights, or even upgrade them all if I wish.

The Echo is not a hub at all, nor is it likely to ever become one.  In terms of its place in the home automation ecosystem, the Echo/Dot/Tap is nothing more than a voice interface to the Alexa service running on Amazon's servers.  The Alexa service converts your voice commands into vendor-specific requests (based on which device(s) you're trying to control) that it then forwards on to the appropriate vendors' cloud-based services, which in turn convert that into a command that is sent either directly to your smart device(s) (if WiFi based) or to a hub in your home that then converts that request into a Zigbee, Z-Wave or other protocol command that it sends to the target device.  The response then travels back through the same path, going through multiple conversions along the way, until your Echo/Dot/Tap is instructed to (hopefully) tell you, "OK".

The short version is that the Echo/Dot/Tap don't actually control anything, nor does the Alexa service.  They just combine to act as a voice-based interface to the vendor-specific services that actually control your devices.

I may not have phrased my wording the best way. Yes, I understand that the common communications policies are Zigbee, Z-Wave, et al... but I do think that 5 years from now, that new oven or washer will be wi-fi back to the maker and cloud controlled. Thus Alexa might have a skill written for it to control without a hub. Similar to the wi-fi bulbs now.

And that's OK for just a few bulbs.  But a hub-based solution eventually becomes more cost-effective (the exact break-even point varies based on several factors), and is yields far more functionality and flexibility.

If you have lights that are already controlled by a wall switch you might find that, if your current wiring allows for it


Nah, mine does not allow for it. Very old wiring with non-standard wall plates for the light switches. I have in one area, 3 switches (all double or triple pole) inside the space for one conventional modern switch. Using voice is a better option.

Thanks for the replies, I am learning more about it every day.

DParker

Re: Looking into the lighting options
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 02:26:40 pm »
If I am happy with how it all works, I can get a newer bridge and copy the settings over.

Fortunately, Philips actually supports a migration procedure for that (some don't, believe it or not), so you're in luck.

Nah, mine does not allow for it. Very old wiring with non-standard wall plates for the light switches. I have in one area, 3 switches (all double or triple pole) inside the space for one conventional modern switch. Using voice is a better option.

Although it's a moot point in your case given your older wiring, it isn't a switch vs voice issue.  It's a switch vs smart bulbs issue, as both can be voice-controlled.  I routinely use Alexa to control, via my SmartThings hub, the GE Link wall switches that in turn control my ceiling fan, the lights on it and my front porch lights.

mike27oct

Re: Looking into the lighting options
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 08:17:26 pm »
>>>  (turn on) my front porch lights

Glad I did not wait for smart things to set up front lights -- many years ago installed a $20 timer switch in place of wall switch that turns 'em on and off at the times we set (have to adjust it's clock each quarter to account for length of day).  Some of our front door/porch lights are CFL flood lights and they stay on from dusk to dawn.  No need for any "Alexa" switches for them.  (Back porch has LED floods for instant-on convenience -- no, do not mind I have to flip the switch since I am right by it at the door).