Alexa Use Without Internet

[ChiroVette]

Hello, all, I am new here.

Anyway, right now, I am well aware hat Alexa's functionality comes to a screeching halt if you lose your Internet or if it goes down, say because of a problem with DSL/Cable modems, which does happen on occasion. But it seems to me that since technology is in a constant state of evolution, there should be a way to eventually have offline Alexa use for at least Smart Home functions, via WiFi. I have left several of my lights and on/off plugs out of any Alexa integration, because it occurs to me that if my Internet goes down, say for ISP maintenance, weather related issues, or other service outages, then it could be very inconvenient if all my devices now have to be toggled manually to bypass Alexa.

Does anyone know if Amazon or some third party developer has any plans to at least safeguard home automation from Internet outages? Obviously anything server oriented like asking the weather, and stuff that requires the device to actually be online would not function. But there must me some way (though not just yet) to store smart home data either in your Alexa device or in some portable, connected drive.

The problem is that while novelty features can wait, I have really integrated my Dot into so many devices, not the least of which being a crapload of smart lights, smart plugs, and both my home theater systems via a Logitech Harmony Elite Remote/Hub. Now for the Harmony stuff I can just use the remote.

Luckily my Internet has been very stable lately. But I dread the day when I lose Internet for even a few hours.

[scottrods]

Luckily, all of MY AI controlled items in my house are also controllable by their iPhone App. hence, making them functional without having to leave them out of my Voice Controlled Smart stuff list... All of it is controllable through WIFI with my Cell phone at this point. Some of it is Way more controllable without it even. Some if it works through Cell connection via internet and WIFI. but at the very least, when I am home I can wifi to wifi control my Hue lighting and every other Smart item I own including the WIFI Thermostat. Yeah... they all give me the same "Internet is not connected" message, but at home mine work perfectly fine with WIFI to WIFI connection.

I also Have extremely stable internet. I don't know of an outage in YEARS here, other than for take down for upgrading a couple of years back. All of our neighborhood has underground utilities. Seems that has something to do with stability in this town.

[renegade600]

the devices you use should still have their own apps.  you can use your mobile to turn just about everything on/off.  I do agree, there should be a way for alexa to continue working, though in a limited compacity when the internet is down. 

[mike27oct]

A limited way could be that Bluetooth works to receive and play music from say, a smartphone.  As long as there is electricity and just the internet signal is missing, anything that works on home network and needs no internet should work.

@ChiroVette
It is apparent you are overly sensitive and dependent on the BIG "1st World Problem":  Loss of Electricity, internet, etc. when our world becomes miserable because our toasters won't function and our more complex gadgets like Alexa won't either. 

Now, you want Amazon, or your cable company etc to create an Internet signal out of thin air.  Get over it, and just be thankful you don't live in the 3rd World.  At least your electricity will return, but it is never there in the 3rd World.

If you understood more about electricity, wi-fi, internet etc, you would not even ask such a naive  question.
 

[jwlv]

But I dread the day when I lose Internet for even a few hours.

Since you are asking about home automation controls when your local internet has an outage, I assume that you would be home during that time. After all, if your internet goes down and you are at work, you won't be able to control anything remotely. But if you are home and you desperately need to control a device, you could just walk over to the device and turn it on/off manually.

[ChiroVette]

Since you are asking about home automation controls when your local internet has an outage, I assume that you would be home during that time. After all, if your internet goes down and you are at work, you won't be able to control anything remotely. But if you are home and you desperately need to control a device, you could just walk over to the device and turn it on/off manually.

Of course. And, as Renegade mentioned, I can still control all devices with my cell phone. I was merely asking out of curiosity about the improvement of an already excellent platform. My position on this is that technology is NEVER static. If it were, we would all be listening to transistor radios and watching TV on black and white little screens inside of giant, unwieldy consoles. Not complaining that "Alexa sucks" or anything. Customer feedback is at least one of the ways in which tech improves on the fly, over time.

And I was wondering if and when platforms like Alexa and Google Home would be able to operate devices via WiFi or Bluetooth alone and not be tethered to the Internet, similar to our smart phones and tablets. In no way do I think that at any time in the near future should a tiny little device like a Dot be loaded with ALL the data from the Internet, so you can get an answer to any question or have full online functionality even without Internet. lol That would be ludicrous.

Edit: By the way, my Internet connection is much, much more stable than it was even a year ago, as Optimum (and all ISP's) have made vast improvements. It used to be that I would regularly lose connectivity at least a few times a month. Since I converted many devices to Smart Home, I only lost Internet ONCE and for an hour, about a month ago. And, yes, I was able to control everything via cell and tablet. One annoying thing that happened was that in using the on/off switches, SOME of my lights went into pairing mode, and I had to go through the annoyance of re-pairing them both to the phone and to Alexa, when my Internet came back on. Then I had to re-name them, put them into whatever groups they were in, both on my SmartLife App and Alexa, and then there was some weirdness with voice commands as a result, so I ended up having to delete those lights from both platforms, pair them again, add them to groups, then discover them with Alexa and add them to Alexa's groups. None of this was "devastating" but it was an inconvenience.

@ChiroVette
It is apparent you are overly sensitive and dependent on the BIG "1st World Problem":  Loss of Electricity, internet, etc. when our world becomes miserable because our toasters won't function and our more complex gadgets like Alexa won't either. 

Now, you want Amazon, or your cable company etc to create an Internet signal out of thin air.  Get over it, and just be thankful you don't live in the 3rd World.  At least your electricity will return, but it is never there in the 3rd World.

If you understood more about electricity, wi-fi, internet etc, you would not even ask such a naive  question.

Your hostility is unwarranted as I made it clear that:

"then it could be inconvenient if all my devices now have to be toggled manually to bypass Alexa."

I never said I would be devastated or lost in the woods. No need for you to be a reactionary, accusatory tool. I was simply asking a basic question about the evolution of a platform to accommodate offline use. Yet your myopic interpretation of my question and my suggestion about how the platform could be improved erroneously suggests that I lack understanding of WiFi and Internet. Not once did I suggest, as you accused me of, that all Alexa functions should be accessible without Internet.

My position is that, while I am well aware the Smart Home part of the platform is limited at the moment, that if my cell phone and tablet can be used to control these devices that certainly Alexa should be able to eventually, at some point, be able to as well.

Unless you are naive enough and don't understand enough about technology to know that things always evolve and improve, then I can understand why you would use confrontational silliness to conflate my innocuous question about improving the platform with some absurd ingratitude for not living in the third world.

Yeah, I am so ungrateful that Alexa doesn't work without Internet that years ago, I should have moved to a country without sewer systems and medical care, not to mention technology, so that I could have died of old age at 23. LMAO

[kenf]

As currently implemented, our Echo devices lack the horsepower to do the job of parsing language.  Obviously, that's why the internet is needed, to send the audio to AWS for parsing, and relaying info or commands to 3rd party systems.

What I like about the Cloud solution is that my Echo devices (spot, Show, Echo1 and Dots) should remain viable as appliances for longer.  Amazon may come out with better speakers and microphones, but they have no reason to discontinue supporting my hardware short of an excuse to sell me more hardware.

Thus, my units will never be able to work offline.  I'd need better hardware.

It's not just the Echo devices and voice commands.  I use Samsung SmartThings as my hub.  When Samsung goes down (it has), then even if Alexa hears me, none of the switches respond because ST doesn't get the message from Alexa to Amazon to Samsung to my ST hub to my light switch.  Nor can I open the ST app and do it on my phone.

A competing product called Hubitat, is aiming to perform everything local.  But they don't have mobile apps yet.  And the chain of command is still Alexa to Amazon to Hubitat vendor to Hubitat to my light switch.  Because that's how Amazon relays to 3rd party systems.

Could Amazon make an Echo++ that has the brains it needs?  Sure.  You can buy Dragon Dictation on a PC and all the parsing is done in your computer.  The tech exists.  But it costs more than $100 and its a lot of wasted CPU sitting around waiting for a command.

I'm not sure it's in Amazon's interest to bother with an offline ready version.  The problem is largely your ISP's reliability which market forces should drive improvement (i.e. you complaining to your provider)

[ChiroVette]

As currently implemented, our Echo devices lack the horsepower to do the job of parsing language.  Obviously, that's why the internet is needed, to send the audio to AWS for parsing, and relaying info or commands to 3rd party systems.

This is perfectly fair, and pretty much what I was expecting. My hope is only that eventually, maybe even in the near future, platforms like Alexa will have the horsepower (your term) to at least allow for some offline functionality that would integrate with WiFi for certain limited things, like Smart Lights and Smart Plugs.

To reiterate, this is in NO WAY meant as a disparagement toward the current tech. I love the integration that Alexa allows. When I first encountered Alexa near the end of last year, my initial thought was that this was going to be something in 3-5 years, but right now, its nothing but a little gimmick.

Then I started to research it further and was blown away by its integration with Smart Home Devices. I had been wanting to buy a Logitech Harmony Elite universal remote, but was n the fence. Until I received a Dot this past Christmas and started investigating with happens when you combine Alexa with a Hub based remote like the Harmony Elite. My mind was made up and I was literally blown, and I went out and bought a crapload of Smart Lights, with millions of color and dimming as well as the Harmony Elite.

The real magic of Alexa for me was when I created "Activities" in my Harmony Elite and can now control these Activities with Alexa. This is another area where I hope the evolution continues. So I use my XBox One S and PS4 Pro for Streaming. So now, I simply say "Alexa, turn on Playstation" (or whatever Activity) and immediately my TV goes on, automatically switches to the correct AVR HDMI Input, the receiver goes on, toggles itself to the proper Input and volume, and then the console goes on and navigates itself to the home screen.

And because this is all Hub based, I don't have to point the remote or anything. The Dot is on top of my Home Theater system's TV stand, adjacent to the Harmony Hub, and I can even turn these Activities on/off from another room.

I am seriously considering grabbing a 4K Fire TV, but there are a few things about it I am not crazy about. Even though you can do a lot more with a Fire TV + Alexa + Harmony than I can with my PS4/XBox One S. I decided to wait for the next generation of Fire TV to see what that's like, since I get almost all the functionality with my consoles and cable box. But there are some functional advantages with Fire TV and I do think that it plays at least a little bit better with Alexa than the PS4, XBone, or Cable Box does.

Another cool thing is I have a "Watch Cable" Activity on my Harmony, and I have icons on the Elite for my 50 favorite channels. Because Alexa integrates so nicely with the Harmony Hub, I can just say "Alexa, Watch TV" and all the right devices turn on and all simultaneously toggle to all the correct inputs. Another cool bonus is that all of the 50 channels on my Cable Activity favorites are controllable with Alexa. So I can tell Alexa to go to HBO, HOBO West, Showtime, The Movie Channel, MTV, or whatever.

So like I said, my initial post was NOT complaining. I love my Echo Dot. I just see so much potential for the platform to expand. I remember when Smart Phones came out and for a little while they were novelties, gimmicks, and the big "cool factor" was downloading an app that could flip a coin. But even back then, anyone with a brain knew that those first iPhones were just the tip of the iceberg. And now, over a decade later, what our phones do is unbelievable. I see Alexa being similar, though that platform has the virtue of combining and playing nice with SO MANY other platforms and devices, like lights, plugs, Harmony Hubs, and the works. Something that Smart Phones didn't have back then.

What I like about the Cloud solution is that my Echo devices (spot, Show, Echo1 and Dots) should remain viable as appliances for longer.  Amazon may come out with better speakers and microphones, but they have no reason to discontinue supporting my hardware short of an excuse to sell me more hardware.

Thus, my units will never be able to work offline.  I'd need better hardware.

It's not just the Echo devices and voice commands.  I use Samsung SmartThings as my hub.  When Samsung goes down (it has), then even if Alexa hears me, none of the switches respond because ST doesn't get the message from Alexa to Amazon to Samsung to my ST hub to my light switch.  Nor can I open the ST app and do it on my phone.

A competing product called Hubitat, is aiming to perform everything local.  But they don't have mobile apps yet.  And the chain of command is still Alexa to Amazon to Hubitat vendor to Hubitat to my light switch.  Because that's how Amazon relays to 3rd party systems.

Could Amazon make an Echo++ that has the brains it needs?  Sure.  You can buy Dragon Dictation on a PC and all the parsing is done in your computer.  The tech exists.  But it costs more than $100 and its a lot of wasted CPU sitting around waiting for a command.

I'm not sure it's in Amazon's interest to bother with an offline ready version.  The problem is largely your ISP's reliability which market forces should drive improvement (i.e. you complaining to your provider)

I agree with all that you said, but I also believe that, while it may not be in Amazon's best interest to make the platform offline ready right this second in time, I love the fact that Google Home is a competitor and now Apple is diving in, too. Let's be honest. Just like it is with game consoles, where we have Sony, MS, and Nintendo competing with one and other, the constant striving to one-up their respective rivals to get our allegiance, and dollars lol, drives gaming technology forward in leaps and bounds.

You really think that Offline Ready functionality isn't in Amazon's best interest? Okay, now it isn't. But what happens when Apple launches a next gen device for their platform that does allow it? Or if Google does? These guys are going to keep competing with one another, and as a result, we benefit.

And, yes, you are correct, that the new devices would have to make sure the platform supported our current devices or it would be really bad. I would be willing to bet money that within the next year, one of the big three home voice platforms are going to allow for offline use, and the rest will follow suit. And, as you said, an Echo ++ or Echo 3rd Generation surely be made. Its just not going to happen until the tech evolves a little more.

And you are also right that Alexa's weakness regarding Online is really the fault of Internet providers. As they make their connections more stable and reliable, which is happening, by the way, then this will be even less of a problem. As I said above, I used to get tons more Internet outages than I do now, and in the 4+ months I have been using Alexa, I only had one outage and that was just for a little while because Optimum was doing some work on my block.

[scottrods]

You really think that Offline Ready functionality isn't in Amazon's best interest? Okay, now it isn't. But what happens when Apple launches a next gen device for their platform that does allow it? Or if Google does? These guys are going to keep competing with one another, and as a result, we benefit.

Apple Home pod I believe is already almost geared up enough for that on board Parsing. They have the biggest baddest chip on an AI for now, and it powers the Siri Stuff on their phones and tablets already... Could be just an update away even. THEN the others would have to give in and say Apple has something going on... By the way... they just acquired Googles AI guy the other day too... this could get interesting sooner than one thought.

[ChiroVette]

You really think that Offline Ready functionality isn't in Amazon's best interest? Okay, now it isn't. But what happens when Apple launches a next gen device for their platform that does allow it? Or if Google does? These guys are going to keep competing with one another, and as a result, we benefit.

Apple Home pod I believe is already almost geared up enough for that on board Parsing. They have the biggest baddest chip on an AI for now, and it powers the Siri Stuff on their phones and tablets already... Could be just an update away even. THEN the others would have to give in and say Apple has something going on... By the way... they just acquired Googles AI guy the other day too... this could get interesting sooner than one thought.

Cool, thanks for the up to date info! I wasn't aware of all that. Regardless of how close or not they are to integrating my suggestion in my OP of this thread, its just awesome to see that the tech for these Home devices on all three platforms are evolving incredibly fast. With Google, Amazon, and Apple all competing with one another, trying to outdo each other, we, the consumers, are the ones who reap the rewards.

[kenf]

another development to support your interest in offline is the Echo+.

Outside of that device, the internet is required, not just for Alexa parsing, but relaying to 3rd parties, as I explained earlier.  Your Echo does not speak directly to anything.

But, with the Echo+, the Zigbee devices (light switches, etc) in your house are directly registered on your Echo.  So IF the Echo+ could understand "Alexa, turn on the living room light" in-unit, it could send the zigbee signal directly to the light switch.  No internet relaying to the 3rd party hub or hub-less device.

[scottrods]

Cool, thanks for the up to date info! I wasn't aware of all that. Regardless of how close or not they are to integrating my suggestion in my OP of this thread, its just awesome to see that the tech for these Home devices on all three platforms are evolving incredibly fast. With Google, Amazon, and Apple all competing with one another, trying to outdo each other, we, the consumers, are the ones who reap the rewards.

We *are* all on the cutting edge, but we also have to be the beta testing team for the manufacturers as well. Wouldn't it be cool if it all worked like we want without having to go through the manufacturers' and Programmers' growing pains?

[ChiroVette]

We *are* all on the cutting edge, but we also have to be the beta testing team for the manufacturers as well.

True, and I like this part of the process.

Wouldn't it be cool if it all worked like we want without having to go through the manufacturers' and Programmers' growing pains?

Yeah it would be. It can seem a little inconvenient at times, but for my money, I would rather be part of the process than sit on the sidelines as a passive observer and only buy into a tech when it is perfected or evolved to the level where it does everything I want it to do. I was one of the people who bought early smart phones while most end users were sitting on the fence with their little flip phones and those old Razers. I knew that this was going to be the next thing, even back then when the apps were incredibly rudimentary compared to what we have now, and there was little in the way of third party developers. Now look at both major platforms, Android and iOS.

I see this whole thing as a sort of organic process. Take Alexa, for example, since this is an Alexa forum.

Most people I know thought Alexa was nothing but a glorified gimmick. A lot of people make jokes that pretty much everything you can do with Alexa you can also do with a cell phone. You can order pizza with a phone, call for an Uber, get the weather, use Siri or the Android mic to get the same answers from Google (or any search engine) you can with Alexa. So, other than the convenience of not having to hit your home button on the phone (or the added pain of typing in your screen unlock password, for those who have them) what good is Alexa?

So many people ask that question, and you know what? For the most part they are right. With the caveat that Alexa alone is pretty much nothing but a gimmick. At least at this point. But there's the rub, Alexa alone is a gimmick.

Not one of my friends who thought Alexa was nothing but a gimmick failed to be completely blown away when I showed them the functionality of Alexa with Home devices. Right now, I have a crapload of color-changing LED lights, and every one of them are not only controllable, dimmable, and change colors with Alexa, but they can be controlled singly OR within groups (as we all know). Same with a ton of Smart Plugs I own, though without dimming and color changes since they are only on/off. For someone who thinks that Alexa's claim to fame is "Alexa order me a pizza," when they see the things you can do with Smart Home devices, it is eye-opening. Then when they see the integration with my Harmony Elite and the things it does with that, all of a sudden, Alexa (and Google Home if I had that) become incredibly powerful platforms.

But Alexa itself, without the support of other tech, can be pretty lackluster. I mean, take me, for instance. I live in Brooklyn, the pizza capital of the world. lol I wouldn't order from Dominoes or Little Cesar's if you paid me to. I have a genuine Italian pizzeria on like every corner I can order from. Same with Chinese. I have my own car, so I don't need Uber. None of the restaurants in my area that I can use Alexa to order from are ones I would want to get food from. So what good is Alexa? 

Well, for that stuff, right now, almost none. BUT what about a year from now, two, or three? When all the restaurants in my area (and yours) we love to order from start to get onboard with Alexa, the way they are starting to with companies like Uber Eats. When the Alexa devices become more sophisticated to implement my suggestion of offline use. When more and more developers start writing skills for Alexa and Google Home the way they now do for Android and iOS. As the linguistic skills of these devices continue to evolve so that there is more "virtual understanding" or "virtual communication."

The beauty of tech like Alexa is it isn't stagnant. Companies like Logitech are bending over backward to work hand-in-hand with Amazon to make the Harmony Remotes work incredibly well with Alexa. The point is that for all of the platform's inherent limitations at this point in its evolution, Alexa is exciting to me. Not only for what I can do now, but imagining what it will be able to do in the months and years to come.

[asianrocker]

OP, alexa really is not new technology. The home automation have been there for ages. The only thing alexa added was voice activation but I do know the ultimate geeks had voice activated their home automation way before alexa. What Alexa did was made it easier for noobs. I said that before.

Now for what you want, I doubt it will happen, alexa is heavily cloud based and cloud is very internet dependent. Now for the one who said echo+ can control switches without internet, I doubt it. I don't have echo+ so I can't tell for sure. But pretty sure all things alexa especially home automation will ALWAYS need internet connection. There is no other way.

Now OP, since you want home automation without internet you have to look up x10 home automation. They definitely does not need internet coz they had been doing home automation even before internet was invented, LOL. As far as I know.

[tuicemen]

I do know the ultimate geeks had voice activated their home automation way before Alexa.

I guess I'm one of the ultimate geeks! I had voice controlled home automation prior to Alexa and with out internet.
I even had voice phone home automation with out internet prior to Alexa or Smartphones.
True this required a PC running when you expected voice activation to work but they had less horsepower then a Raspberry Pi does now.
The software I used I created for Windows PCs but there was and still is other software available.
It is possible to do voice activation with a Raspberry PI (thought I've not attempted it) and several hubs are basically a dressed up Raspberry Pi

Now OP, since you want home automation without internet you have to look up x10 home automation. They definitely does not need internet coz they had been doing home automation even before internet was invented, LOL. As far as I know.

Actually there are several protocols that don't require the internet.
However it is true X10 were doing Home automation prior to the internet. They were the pioneers of HA
My setup has been and still is largely X10.
X10 WTI went belly up several years back and was took over by Authinx which has upgraded 90 percent of the devices to work with modern electronics. They just released a new WIFI Hub and app arround Christmas and plan on releasing an Alexa Skill in the future.
The App is very simple at the moment but the hub is rock solid and has loads of untapped horse power.
In fortunately the App uses AWS so local control(none internet control) is not possible currently.
If anyone is interested in more info check out the X10 Forums http://forums.x10.com it is run by users and you'll find lots info there.